tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post6110033498630778425..comments2023-06-18T01:25:08.748-07:00Comments on Information Transfer Economics: Computing Nash equilibria is intractableJason Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12680061127040420047noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-18941685609090963482016-02-08T15:22:59.752-08:002016-02-08T15:22:59.752-08:00I was thinking of F+B's diffusion transfer and...I was thinking of F+B's diffusion transfer and K-Trumpler effect results, not of anything else. In diffusion transfer, information transfer relations led to the correct understanding, which is irrespective of the underlying diffusion constant of the media. So yes I am a believer, but not because of you or me ;)Todd Zorickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10976192775890569092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-6286311926374468462016-02-08T11:13:10.189-08:002016-02-08T11:13:10.189-08:00In my comment "Square laws" should be &q...In my comment "Square laws" should be "Power laws."Tom Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654184190478330946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-66564624747119672292016-02-08T11:12:21.388-08:002016-02-08T11:12:21.388-08:00That is an interesting analogy!That is an interesting analogy!Jason Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680061127040420047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-8104831611828669692016-02-08T11:00:04.314-08:002016-02-08T11:00:04.314-08:00Hi Todd,
The latter part of your comment is not t...Hi Todd,<br /><br />The latter part of your comment is not true of any physical systems ... Do you have any examples?<br /><br />The formalism represents a massive simplification. I don't think there are many cases where that kind of simplication leads to better understanding ... Even in the economics examples, it's essentially a reformulation of supply and demand.<br /><br />I think it is useful in Econ because they've made some assumptions that they can't seem to question (utility maximization) ... Maybe it could shake it up.<br /><br />Even in the EEG, it's another way to understand the well known power law distributions.<br /><br />... And you see what it takes to trigger my boosterish enthusiasm mitigation mode. Excitement is cool, but skepticism is always warranted.Jason Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680061127040420047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-86817145648168734612016-02-08T10:50:17.647-08:002016-02-08T10:50:17.647-08:00Todd, after writing a paper with Jason, how well w...Todd, after writing a paper with Jason, how well would you say you understand the information transfer relationships now?<br /><br />One of the takeaways I get (from F&B) is basically this (I'll put it in quotes, even though it's only my attempt to paraphrase them):<br /><br />"Square laws and exponential laws abound in nature, and information equilibrium is a possible way to explain many of them"<br /><br />You just need (<a href="http://informationtransfereconomics.blogspot.com/2016/01/models-and-frameworks.html?showComment=1454007214163#c1672861101243499744" rel="nofollow">as Jason has explained</a>)<br /><br />"<i>But there aren't that many criteria to check<br /><br />Two process variables<br />Micro scale degrees of freedom<br />Plausible information transfer channel<br /><br />So the deciding factor is usually just looking at empirical data.</i>"Tom Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654184190478330946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-68075334364597665092016-02-08T09:58:27.015-08:002016-02-08T09:58:27.015-08:00I am not a physicist nor information theorist, but...I am not a physicist nor information theorist, but IMHO Fielitz and Borchardt have made a very important discovery. The fact that information transfer relatiohships can completely describe important physical phenomena is amazing. I think that more important is that information transfer relationships in many cases provides a better understanding of a system's dynamics that even a complete physical description can't provide. It really establishes that information transfer is perhaps of primary importance in physical phenomena, and therefore likely to be a profound descriptor of any applicable system.Todd Zorickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10976192775890569092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-62279285381417351152016-02-07T18:52:04.535-08:002016-02-07T18:52:04.535-08:00Here's his comment.<a href="http://informationtransfereconomics.blogspot.com/2015/04/economic-potentials-or-how-to-define.html?showComment=1444760252725#c2015553520077428430" rel="nofollow">Here's his comment.</a>Tom Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654184190478330946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-17575750668427269222016-02-07T18:21:28.627-08:002016-02-07T18:21:28.627-08:00Thanks for sharing your thoughts! "Conflating...Thanks for sharing your thoughts! "Conflating" was my word: my perception of what that author would have said.Tom Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654184190478330946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-40255105246584004122016-02-07T18:16:01.678-08:002016-02-07T18:16:01.678-08:00The person who runs that site commented here awhil...The person who runs that site commented here awhile ago (no idea where it is now) and told me that he put that up there.<br /><br />I have no idea what his issue is with "conflating" the two. There is no technical problem, and I asked what bad idea would end up in one's head from "conflating" the two but got no response.<br /><br />What is funny is that in that pdf link, the author says:<br /><br />"Equations that have the same ‘form’ but different functions, as used in different fields, as mentioned, are<br />what are called mathematical isomorphisms. This is another area of common confusion: people thinking that just because two equations are isomorphic that they are the same."<br /><br />Actually, that is exactly what the existence of a mathematical isomorphism means. Much of the 20th century progress in physics comes from treating mathematical isomorphisms with respect.<br /><br />If the equations governing two systems are isomorphic, the only way the systems wouldn't be the same (in some way) is if one or the other equations doesn't describe the system accurately -- i.e. information theory or thermodynamics is wrong.<br /><br />But thermodynamics is just information theory that is subjected to constrained optimization with a particular Lagrange multiplier (temperature).<br /><br />I can only conclude that it is some ineffable quality that "true thermodynamics" has that thermodynamics derived from information theory doesn't. Like monetary policy effectiveness or awesomeness.Jason Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680061127040420047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-37461817282769142912016-02-07T16:36:58.871-08:002016-02-07T16:36:58.871-08:00O/T: While Googling Fielitz and Borchardt (to see ...O/T: While Googling Fielitz and Borchardt (to see if they perhaps published any other examples, or if anybody else out there found applications), I ran across <a href="http://www.eoht.info/page/Jason+Smith" rel="nofollow">this write up on you Jason</a>. The folks there are sure not fans of conflating information theory and thermodynamics! For example:<br /><a href="http://www.humanthermodynamics.com/TNETIT.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.humanthermodynamics.com/TNETIT.pdf</a>Tom Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654184190478330946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-36730411825990093692016-02-06T13:59:48.059-08:002016-02-06T13:59:48.059-08:00The reason I raise the above is I understand profe...The reason I raise the above is I understand professionally you work with signal processing algorithms.<br /><br />HenryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-41415428458585014232016-02-06T13:57:58.626-08:002016-02-06T13:57:58.626-08:00"Also, one of the ways to "break" i..."Also, one of the ways to "break" intractability is with randomness..."<br /><br /><br />Sounds a bit like the use of dither to resolve difficulties in signal processing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-4458228083852263952016-02-06T13:29:08.359-08:002016-02-06T13:29:08.359-08:00He already complains about them ignoring the SMD t...He already complains about them ignoring the SMD theorem.Tom Brownhttp://www.google.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-87508969501030182692016-02-06T13:27:29.389-08:002016-02-06T13:27:29.389-08:00No, in reference to having more ammo to attack eco...No, in reference to having more ammo to attack economists with. I could see him saying your final sentence for example.Tom Brownhttp://www.google.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-65494383420084323822016-02-06T13:04:22.385-08:002016-02-06T13:04:22.385-08:00I am not sure I understand. Is this in reference t...I am not sure I understand. Is this in reference to the non-mathematical approach?Jason Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12680061127040420047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6837159629100463303.post-8973331490658511412016-02-06T12:49:15.487-08:002016-02-06T12:49:15.487-08:00Steve Keen would probably like this. And if Keen i...Steve Keen would probably like this. And if Keen is to be believed about Austrians, so would they.Tom Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17654184190478330946noreply@blogger.com